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LainOS Developers Meeting #2
April 5th, 2003 (#LainOSDev)
Topic: "What is really wrong with Current OS's today?"

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[20:39] [Neovanglist] I'll start
[20:40] <majestic> with answers or questions
[20:40] [Neovanglist] in my opinion, the most frustrating is maintaing a orderly and usabable UI when you have more than 5 or so apps open
[20:40] [Neovanglist] answers
[20:41] <majestic> I would have to agree
[20:41] <zn4k> yeah
[20:41] [Neovanglist] for example, when you get so many apps open on your taskbar, it becomes progressivly harder to pick from app to app, and tell whats going on in the app
[20:42] *** AFCommando ( has joined #LainOSDev
[20:42] [Neovanglist] wb AFCommando
[20:42] <majestic> WB
[20:42] <AFCommando> thx
[20:42] <AFCommando> o i c majestic is here
[20:42] [Neovanglist] we just started
[20:42] <AFCommando> we gonna start?
[20:42] <AFCommando> ah ok
[20:43] [Neovanglist] grrr
[20:43] [Neovanglist] AF how much of that did you get?
[20:43] <majestic> ok what else is wrong with today's OS's beside the inability to easily manage more than 5 aspps easily
[20:43] <majestic> ?
[20:43] [Neovanglist] hrmm
[20:43] <majestic> let stay focused on whats wrong and we'll try and fix it later
[20:43] <AFCommando> hm?
[20:44] <AFCommando> what wrong with current OS'? or lainos rite now?
[20:44] <majestic> but yeah def...that does's like a fustrating tease
[20:44] [Neovanglist] <majestic> Let try to think in terms of how the current OS's make you (as the User) feel? what feels fustrating, what feels like it could be faster, smoother smarter...etc....
[20:44] <AFCommando> ah ok i just had to read it a second time
[20:44] [Neovanglist] how about the fact
[20:45] <AFCommando> i get fustrated when the UI is too cluttered
[20:45] <majestic> current OS's, for all intents and purposes ther is no LAinOS...yet :)
[20:45] <AFCommando> yup there aren't
[20:45] <majestic> cluttered how?
[20:45] <majestic> tomany pallettes? windows? controls?
[20:45] <AFCommando> i don't know if u guys tried metacity on gnome?
[20:46] <AFCommando> i think that feels cluttered
[20:46] <majestic> no
[20:46] <AFCommando> i'm using fluxbox
[20:46] <majestic> hmmm
[20:46] <AFCommando> a lightweight WM
[20:46] <majestic> what is metacity? orfluxbox?
[20:46] <AFCommando> they are window managers
[20:46] <majestic> you'll have to forgive me as I don't keep up with everypackage out there...
[20:46] <AFCommando> np
[20:46] <majestic> oh ok
[20:47] [Neovanglist] Fluxbox is a variant on Blackbix
[20:47] [Neovanglist] err
[20:47] [Neovanglist] Blackbox
[20:47] <AFCommando> yup
[20:47] [Neovanglist] I'm not sure about metacity
[20:47] <m477> Would it be better to find the flaws in current OSes or things we'd like to see?
[20:47] <AFCommando> metacity is the one gnome2 uses
[20:47] <m477> sorry if that was the topic of the last meeting, I didn't get a log
[20:47] [Neovanglist] ahh ok
[20:47] <majestic> Gnome it self has tons of performance and ergonamic issues
[20:47] [Neovanglist] m477, it wasn't
[20:48] <majestic> first flaws then dream list and here is why
[20:48] <AFCommando> yeah thats true majestic
[20:48] <majestic> by determining flasws first, it should help create a more clear path to the feature while avoiding stumbling blocks
[20:48] [Neovanglist] agreed
[20:49] <AFCommando> sounds good
[20:49] [Neovanglist] one thing that irratates the hell out of mee
[20:49] [Neovanglist] is in many cases
[20:49] <majestic> think of how many billions have gone into whats out there, now we can take it apart from a safe distance then learn from it, then improve it
[20:49] [Neovanglist] I need to read information from two seperate applications/windows at the same time, while using that information in another program
[20:50] [Neovanglist] with current WM I am stuck putting windows caddycorner to each other, or switching focus
[20:50] <AFCommando> oh yea
[20:50] <AFCommando> thats a issue i face too
[20:50] <AFCommando> alot
[20:50] <majestic> humm ok that opens the areana to better App integration?
[20:51] <majestic> yeah me as well no app inegration sucks
[20:51] [Neovanglist] that, and variable size window focusing
[20:51] <majestic> *integration
[20:51] [Neovanglist] aka focusing a portion of any window onto another window
[20:51] <majestic> please elaborate on Variable Windows Size Focusing?
[20:51] [Neovanglist] that way exististing legacy apps can take advantage of it
[20:51] [Neovanglist] ok
[20:51] [Neovanglist] you have a window
[20:51] [Neovanglist] you can zone off any size area of that window you want
[20:51] [Neovanglist] to either a portion of another window
[20:52] [Neovanglist] and if you want
[20:52] [Neovanglist] you can just make it a transpearent overlay, not nessecairly something that completely covers
[20:52] [Neovanglist] so you are in IRC, and you zone off an unused portion of the IRC client's interface to the progress meter of a download manager
[20:52] <AFCommando> that would require true transparency, and x-windows doesn't support that yet i don't think
[20:53] <majestic> could make that type of integration a requirement like the LainOS version of Windows Logo rewuirements, only with all the BS
[20:53] [Neovanglist] well
[20:53] <majestic> withjout all the BS ..sorry been another 15 hour day today
[20:53] <majestic> :)
[20:53] [Neovanglist] the apps wouldn't need any special "LainOS" support code, ofcourse we could put some helper libs in for special LainOS support
[20:54] [Neovanglist] but I think the idea of using this with any app would work out well
[20:54] [Neovanglist] sort of like how in OSX
[20:54] [Neovanglist] you can see whats going on in a window on the dock
[20:54] <AFCommando> i never got a chance to use OSX
[20:54] [Neovanglist] except, it would be a selecter area of a window
[20:54] [Neovanglist] and you could put it wherever you want
[20:54] <AFCommando> ic
[20:54] [Neovanglist] and either floating above all, or just on one app
[20:54] <majestic> but it could support that....let's not worry about what X does or does not support it becomes to limiting in the process of determining scope, but it is currently a weak link
[20:55] <AFCommando> ok majestic
[20:55] <majestic> :)
[20:55] [Neovanglist] anyone else have any problems they would like to elaborate on?
[20:56] <majestic> ok so far we have bad app management,lack of meaningfull and easy app integration for sharing objects or data...
[20:56] * zn4k just wants a pretty terminal like in OSX on his PC XD
[20:56] <majestic> :) it does rule doesn't it ? :)
[20:56] <zn4k> yeah
[20:56] [Neovanglist] thats another possible issue
[20:56] <majestic> lack of good and easy command line tools?
[20:57] [Neovanglist] the intergration/function of terminal I/O in apps
[20:57] [Neovanglist] for example
[20:57] <AFCommando> hm..what do u mean by that Neovanglist
[20:57] [Neovanglist] each app usaully puts out some kind of terminal output for debugging
[20:57] <majestic> yeah other than the pathetic limited info it opukes out to the console
[20:57] [Neovanglist] but in most cases you cannot see it unless you exit X and go back out to the console
[20:57] [Neovanglist] what if you could view the current console for each app
[20:57] <majestic> yeah which is limited and sucks
[20:57] <AFCommando> oic
[20:57] [Neovanglist] dump all out debug info into special terminals
[20:58] <zn4k> you can just run programs from a terminal emulator..
[20:58] <AFCommando> that would be great
[20:58] [Neovanglist] zn4k, thats messy though
[20:58] <zn4k> and most programs have some debug output
[20:58] [Neovanglist] I've done it myself, and it works
[20:58] [Neovanglist] but
[20:58] <zn4k> not really o_O
[20:58] <majestic> hmm could be helpfull especially if "Logo Reqs" require the equiv of AppleScript or REXX, or other command line functionality
[20:58] <majestic> could make it interactive on many levels
[20:58] <zn4k> if youve ever used blender 3d in windows
[20:58] <zn4k> it opens a dos window
[20:59] <zn4k> and outputs it's debugs stuff
[20:59] <zn4k> into it
[20:59] [Neovanglist] zn4k right
[20:59] <zn4k> debug*
[20:59] [Neovanglist] but
[20:59] [Neovanglist] isn't it better to have a terminal always set up and accessible
[20:59] [Neovanglist] but that only shows when you call it
[20:59] <majestic> yeah and that is one of the things that is also constant in Maya 4.5 and 3DS
[20:59] <majestic> very helpful for powerusers
[20:59] [Neovanglist] indeed
[20:59] <AFCommando> i agree
[20:59] <majestic> yeah control over something thet "scary" (from a novice point of you) would be reqwuired
[21:00] <majestic> point of view
[21:00] [Neovanglist] ahh, also
[21:00] <majestic> ?
[21:00] [Neovanglist] another advange to dumping the apps you want into dedicated tems
[21:00] [Neovanglist] apps could interact at a terminal level
[21:01] [Neovanglist] like this,
[21:01] <majestic> yeah that's what I think we were saying
[21:01] [Neovanglist] apps in groups are ran from group terms
[21:01] <majestic> isn't it?
[21:01] <majestic> heheh
[21:02] [Neovanglist] well the programs in that term could share data with each other, and dump there console info out to that term
[21:02] [Neovanglist] this solves part of the intergration problem while fixing the console output problem
[21:04] <majestic> seems to will require some custom CL apps but most likely worth the effort
[21:04] [Neovanglist] I just think it would be handy
[21:05] <AFCommando> what's CL?
[21:05] <majestic> command line
[21:05] <AFCommando> o ok
[21:05] [Neovanglist] it would be cool to control lets say XMMS without a special plugin
[21:05] <majestic> i'm getting lazier by the minute :)
[21:05] <AFCommando> lol
[21:05] <AFCommando> np
[21:05] [Neovanglist] you could just dump XMMS in a group with your infrared remote interface app
[21:05] [Neovanglist] if you see where I am going
[21:06] [Neovanglist] it takes API development out of properitary land, and puts it in userland
[21:06] <majestic> what else can we find that's wrong before we start coding this right here and now ;)
[21:07] <AFCommando> hm..
[21:07] <majestic> sorry trying to stay focused ther is MUCH concept work and scoping problems to deal with
[21:08] [Neovanglist] hrmm in any case
[21:08] <majestic> we know system management is a perpetual issue with users including us
[21:08] [Neovanglist] in what aspect?
[21:09] [Neovanglist] driver management and etc?
[21:09] <majestic> I cannot belive that the current way of managin system resources and setup ESPECIALLY in UNIX is the end all be all
[21:09] <majestic> everything from screen size to driver setup, kernel services etc etc....
[21:09] [Neovanglist] ahh, agreed
[21:09] [Neovanglist] it's a result of overmoduleization
[21:10] [Neovanglist] everything is so compartmentalized for each app, there is no shared logic in it
[21:10] [Neovanglist] and it becomes redundant
[21:10] <majestic> yeah but the problem is not neccc. a over mod problem it's a lack of standard problem even from within one os
[21:10] [Neovanglist] that's one thing OSX fixed with XML registery
[21:10] <majestic> yes and it rules....very clean
[21:10] [Neovanglist] indeed
[21:10] <AFCommando> a registery in xml?
[21:10] <majestic> scary clean even and easy to mod
[21:11] [Neovanglist] yea, in OSX every app puts it's configuration/settings data in a shared XML database
[21:11] <majestic> yeah it clean easy to read even without code comments and parses quicker than hell
[21:11] <AFCommando> wow that's nice
[21:11] [Neovanglist] indeed
[21:11] [Neovanglist] we may want to study and learn from it
[21:12] <majestic> a database i might add that can be modded on the fly from the term
[21:12] <majestic> why not it is based on BSD after all
[21:12] <majestic> :) muahahhahahaha
[21:12] [Neovanglist] yea
[21:12] [Neovanglist] thats another thing though
[21:12] <AFCommando> lol now i feel like getting a mac =P
[21:12] <majestic> :)
[21:12] [Neovanglist] if you changed the settings, how will the app know to reinit itself?
[21:12] [Neovanglist] to read the new data
[21:13] [Neovanglist] or would it require a manual restart
[21:13] <majestic> chattting from a daul g4 running jaguar as we speak
[21:13] <AFCommando> restart registry and it sends a signal to all apps?
[21:13] <zn4k> nah, just send it a message
[21:13] [Neovanglist] well the problem with sending a signal, atleast a kill, or hup signal is that the program will loose it's current data
[21:13] <AFCommando> oh
[21:13] <AFCommando> hmm...
[21:13] [Neovanglist] perhaps it would take the current state of the app, and reload it loading the new conf data, then put the other uneffected data back into it
[21:13] <majestic> all you need to half the time is restart the app or re-open a windo and the change is isntant
[21:14] [Neovanglist] what about this
[21:14] [Neovanglist] it takes a memory snapshot of the app
[21:14] [Neovanglist] reloads the app with the new conf settings
[21:14] [Neovanglist] checks the diff between the two
[21:14] [Neovanglist] and patches the unchanged data back into the apps memory space
[21:14] <majestic> that could tricky to to keep it free of memeory leaks though....
[21:14] [Neovanglist] yea, it would
[21:14] <zn4k> what if the current program is very large in memory though
[21:15] <majestic> that would be another issue
[21:15] [Neovanglist] ask the user if they want to put it in a pagefile and perform it, or just reload with loosing the current data
[21:15] <AFCommando> what if they want to pagefile but there isn't enough mem? it just errors?
[21:16] [Neovanglist] checksum the current memory allocation and decide if thats an issue before it becomes one
[21:16] [Neovanglist] err
[21:16] [Neovanglist] not checksum
[21:16] [Neovanglist] just check
[21:16] <majestic> yeah i suppose you could just warn the user that a config stat has changed, but we would have to make sure the message is easy to understand..not FatalException oE:Ee3:ff:a$ so on and so forth
[21:17] <majestic> not all changes need be destructive to data though
[21:17] [Neovanglist] well my concern is the app may not be well programmed or "smart" enough to reload it's setting without our intervention
[21:17] <AFCommando> how will u decide?
[21:18] <AFCommando> *it decide
[21:18] [Neovanglist] check to see if the apps says it is LainOS compliant or something
[21:18] [Neovanglist] like Majestic suggested along the lines of earlier
[21:18] <majestic> think about it why would it neccissarily be destructive if we can require the "Terminal Assistant" to inform the app as though all the user did is open a preferences dialog...?!? know what i mean?
[21:19] [Neovanglist] ahh
[21:19] [Neovanglist] yea
[21:19] [Neovanglist] but don't most apps handle that differently?
[21:20] <majestic> yeah but that doen't mean we cant force everyone to include that kind of Term Assisntant "Niceness"
[21:20] <majestic> in any app created for LainOS
[21:20] [Neovanglist] ofcourse
[21:20] <majestic> can't be any worse than Carbonizing a OS 9.x app for X.2
[21:21] [Neovanglist] but, how will we test it?
[21:21] [Neovanglist] we'll have to modify apps for this ourselves
[21:21] <majestic> if we are gonna create the "Next Step" then we mught as well break the Rules it will be open source...with Logo Requirements
[21:22] <majestic> not necc, especially if we create detailed white papaer for the Terminal assistant and document the API well time consuming but worth it
[21:22] <majestic> chances are it will just be an objec tcall anyway
[21:22] <majestic> object call
[21:23] [Neovanglist] true
[21:23] [Neovanglist] in any case, I think we are on a tagent
[21:23] <majestic> a little consuptive but no worse than carbon
[21:23] <majestic> yeah we are :)
[21:24] <majestic> Anyway to Review lets see: Better App Tracking and Managment (UI), better App integration, Terminal Integration with controls for the power user, unified light and easy XML shared "Source". did I leave anything out?
[21:25] <majestic> ? anybody? bueller?
[21:25] [Neovanglist] hrmm
[21:25] <AFCommando> nope i think thats it
[21:26] [Neovanglist] I think that will do it for now
[21:26] <majestic> (god i loved that movie)
[21:26] <majestic> ok lets move to features?
[21:26] [Neovanglist] alrighty
[21:27] <majestic> blue sky time! don't hold back! it doesn't matter if X can do it or not just start spuuing
[21:27] <AFCommando> REAL TRANSPARENCY!!! :d
[21:27] [Neovanglist] alright, first lets start with our rendering system
[21:27] <majestic> doesn't even matter if it exists yet, anything you ever saw in a movie, scrolled on a cocktail napkin or lied to your wiffe about....
[21:27] <AFCommando> lol
[21:28] <majestic> probably better if it doen't exist like the render system :)
[21:28] [Neovanglist] I'm assuming we can build it on OpenGL, so transpearency, and etc will be taken care of
[21:28] <AFCommando> lol
[21:28] <AFCommando> ok
[21:28] <zn4k> lol make windows in the background appear farther away
[21:28] <AFCommando> :D
[21:28] <AFCommando> ROFL
[21:28] <majestic> we are gonnna need horses like crazy for a render system cause it'sll be a while we really need a math god or 50 for that?....hmmmm
[21:28] <zn4k> by possible making them shrink, become darker, etc..
[21:29] <majestic> I like tath father away idea
[21:29] [Neovanglist] lol
[21:29] [Neovanglist] perspecive camera can do that for us
[21:29] [Neovanglist] it's built into OpenGL
[21:30] <majestic> OpenGL is the Savior of all things
[21:30] <majestic> but it will probably need custom work but it's doable
[21:30] [Neovanglist] OpenGL is a well throught out, tried and true, truly multiplatform graphics AIP
[21:30] [Neovanglist] err
[21:30] [Neovanglist] API
[21:30] <majestic> I think I migh know a few math gods
[21:30] [Neovanglist] I'm halfway decent at math, I just can't do things like Raytracing
[21:30] <zn4k> you dont really need to program perspectives
[21:30] <majestic> it's what makes OS X so friggin kick ass and clean.....
[21:31] <majestic> a true and clean implamentation
[21:31] <zn4k> juts make the window shrink , the windows are flat anyway ;)
[21:31] <zn4k> just*
[21:31] <majestic> speeling aside you get my point...hehhe
[21:31] <majestic> good point
[21:31] <zn4k> OSX appears to make good use of shadows to make windows look layered
[21:31] <majestic> but if the go eats some horses cause it has to generate an alpha channel
[21:32] <majestic> yeah it doea and a scary thing is that all the widgets are TIFF or bloated ass PNG's shows you how clean it is
[21:33] <zn4k> bloated?
[21:33] <majestic> I think my spelling actually getting fucking worse :)
[21:33] <zn4k> lol
[21:33] <zn4k> not as bad as mine
[21:33] [Neovanglist] it's IRC
[21:33] [Neovanglist] it does that to people
[21:33] <majestic> PNG is an intel graphic file format that has the best appearance and the cleansest alpha channel, but the file sizes are just frelling sick
[21:34] <zn4k> you can compress PNG's ...
[21:34] [Neovanglist] I think the image file size is less important than the parsing speed
[21:34] <zn4k> it's not like it's a raw format
[21:34] <majestic> you can but apple doesn't
[21:34] <zn4k> I use PNGs instead of jpegs
[21:34] <zn4k> because jpeg's quality is jut
[21:34] <zn4k> bleh
[21:34] <zn4k> just
[21:34] <majestic> true butg file sizes still eat memory thus they still eat cycles
[21:34] <zn4k> when it's loaded into video memory
[21:34] <zn4k> it doesnt matter what file format it's in
[21:34] <majestic> me too but they can be big iof your not carefull
[21:35] [Neovanglist] hrmm
[21:35] [Neovanglist] well keep in mind the images will be textures on polygons in the UI itself
[21:36] [Neovanglist] so the image size will have to be able to change
[21:36] [Neovanglist] also
[21:36] <majestic> true just making a point, Apple G4's at 1Gz are roughly calculating at about 13 GigaFlops, the UI takes one GFLP of processing power, that is the equiv of a full cray one in Processing cycles maxed out (not I/O throughput, as the cray is untouchable in that category)
[21:36] [Neovanglist] the images will on average be quite large
[21:36] [Neovanglist] 800x600 and up
[21:37] <majestic> yup just wanna keep that in mind not that it matters as we are off subject and bogging the brainstorm down in shit we can't do ...yet :)
[21:38] <majestic> large is not necc bad either as long as it's planned for
[21:38] [Neovanglist] so whats a feature you would like to see in a WM
[21:38] <majestic> me?
[21:38] [Neovanglist] anyone
[21:38] <majestic> I have a list 50 miles long :)
[21:38] *** BadDreamChaser ( has joined #LainOSDev
[21:38] [Neovanglist] hey there BDC
[21:39] <BadDreamChaser> Hi
[21:39] [Neovanglist] the topic is Features you'd like to see in a User Interface
[21:39] <majestic> hi BadDreamer we are brainstorming BlueSky features
[21:40] <majestic> I for one would like to see a more "Living", interactive desktop with animated and resposive icons...
[21:40] <AFCommando> hm... WM stuff huh
[21:41] <majestic> it would give the user more a sense of controlling a world than a boring old computer full of IRS tax forms
[21:41] [Neovanglist] lol it would be fun to watch your IE icon battle with your Mozilla icon
[21:41] <AFCommando> i'd like a interactive background picture
[21:41] <AFCommando> :)
[21:41] <majestic> :)
[21:41] <majestic> yeah with some feature horked from Ie's active desktop with less problems of course :)
[21:41] <AFCommando> just from navi, the copland logo rotating its ring
[21:42] <AFCommando> :D
[21:42] <zn4k> mabey current status?
[21:42] <majestic> I'm a big fan of MASSIVE gobs of interaction, icons that "Unfold and zoom at you ..things of that sort
[21:42] [Neovanglist] possibly
[21:42] <zn4k> and scroll across it like in lain
[21:42] <majestic> status of what?
[21:42] <zn4k> just the status of the system
[21:42] [Neovanglist] another thing that I feel is important is UI speed and fludidity
[21:43] <zn4k> sorta like a ticker on the news, but its a 3d ring, if youve seen lain
[21:43] <majestic> the app the icon represents? hell yeah that could be another way to know what the hell is going on and whats eating the clock cycles
[21:43] [Neovanglist] I want the UI to feel like it's flowing at your command, not like the user is sitting around waiting for it's ui
[21:43] [Neovanglist] let the UI wait for the user, not the user for the UI
[21:43] <AFCommando> yes i agree Neovanglist
[21:43] <majestic> yeah definatley me too
[21:43] <zn4k> I don't think that will be much of a problem with newer syste
[21:43] <zn4k> systems
[21:43] <majestic> too bad we wwere born 3 hundred years too soon :)
[21:44] <AFCommando> ROFL
[21:44] [Neovanglist] well here is the thing
[21:44] [Neovanglist] while we can't make things instantanious
[21:44] <majestic> me neither with all the horsepower out there it should be easy especially with HyperThreading
[21:44] [Neovanglist] we can find ways to allow the user to be productive while he waits for an application
[21:45] <majestic> the NAVI always incorporated email and toDo's into the Os as well if I remember correctly
[21:45] <AFCommando> like how?
[21:45] <AFCommando> i forget
[21:45] [Neovanglist] alright continue guys, I have to do somthing, it'll take about 10 minutes
[21:45] <AFCommando> i guess its a good time to go watch lain again
[21:45] <AFCommando> heh
[21:45] <majestic> my statement sshould give a hint to"IOdle productivity"
[21:45] <majestic> idle...(god damn I'm a no typing skill bastard...)
[21:45] <zn4k> the little ring around the navi logo
[21:46] <zn4k> gives status in lain about mail and such..
[21:46] <AFCommando> :)
[21:46] <zn4k> or when she is inputing text, it uses the ring as the "command" line
[21:46] <AFCommando> really?
[21:46] <zn4k> the text input field
[21:46] <AFCommando> i don't remember that
[21:46] <zn4k> I swear I saw that XD
[21:47] <AFCommando> ok
[21:47] <zn4k> or it was the email printing 1 letter at a time
[21:47] <AFCommando> well i need watch lain again hehe
[21:47] <zn4k> as the computer spoke
[21:47] <zn4k> around the ring
[21:47] <BadDreamChaser> I need to watch it again..
[21:47] <majestic> yeah a more interactive BIFF if you will, what if you're (and mine if you read one of my posts on the forum) idea for a interacvtie "living desktop is an interactive SmartBIFF that will let you deal with mail will, say the GIMP is processing one of it's painfully slow Foo scripts on alarge image an example
[21:48] <BadDreamChaser> Saw it only once -_-
[21:48] <majestic> while gimp....damnit
[21:49] <BadDreamChaser> How about voice commands...any plans for that?
[21:49] <majestic> no app to open just a tiny or atleast not too heavy window kind how OS Mail is tightly integrated to Aqua
[21:49] <majestic> that app talk to everything
[21:49] <majestic> not till we get an audio engineer that can code :(
[21:49] <majestic> Z?
[21:49] <majestic> thoughts?
[21:49] <majestic> anybody?
[21:50] <majestic> mommy?
[21:50] <AFCommando> about...?
[21:50] <AFCommando> the current features said?
[21:50] <majestic> my interactive biff dealing with the backdrop making users more productive while they are waiting for plugins to finish or whatever
[21:51] <zn4k> hehe
[21:51] <AFCommando> what's BIFF?
[21:51] <majestic> we could integrate simple low horsepower apps into the WM to make it seamless and more usefull
[21:51] <zn4k> it's a text
[21:51] <zn4k> mail client
[21:52] <zn4k> well
[21:52] <zn4k> err its a front end
[21:52] <zn4k> to MUTT
[21:52] <zn4k> a text client
[21:52] <majestic> it's a little program that check to see if you have mail and if you do it beeps and puts up the little red flag on the icon of the mailbox
[21:52] <majestic> yeah Z has it
[21:52] <majestic> I was trying to be simplitic
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[21:53] <AFCommando> i think its a good idea, but how interactive will it be?
[21:54] <zn4k> its more to give
[21:54] <majestic> PS installment 3 of the Animatrix is out "Detective Story" for those of you with broadband and that aqre Multitasking through this mostly usefull meeting :)
[21:54] <zn4k> output
[21:54] <zn4k> :Dt
[21:54] <zn4k> I saw it
[21:54] <zn4k> it's great
[21:54] <zn4k> you finally get to see an actual character from the movie..
[21:55] <AFCommando> link plz :D
[21:55] <majestic> it is, perhaps a bad example but I'm talking smart but light mail programm thats integrated and can be turned on or off for performance or convenience
[21:55] <majestic>
[21:56] <majestic> they are planning to release 4 of the 9 stories for free before the DVD contain all nine and a making of is released
[21:56] <majestic>
[21:56] <AFCommando> kool
[21:57] <majestic> :) yes it is thw warchowski brothers rule
[21:57] <AFCommando> how might i get the first two installments?
[21:57] <majestic> the second link takes you to the animatrix home page with the index and release date for all
[21:58] <AFCommando> ok
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[21:58] <majestic> they kick ass looks like thee one called "Program" was done by the same folks as Fists of the NorthStar
[21:58] <majestic> same style anyway
[21:58] <AFCommando> ic
[21:59] <majestic> very kewl lots of subtle thing they are saying in all these anime's
[22:00] <majestic> like the reinforcemnt that the matrix can make you feel or belive anything it wants you too, including the fact that you can be in love with people that doen't's twisted good
[22:01] <majestic> lots of very kewl background info before the movies hit too
[22:01] <majestic> anyway
[22:02] <majestic> so we are looking at MaSS interaction, great UI feature like Percived Depth to the dektop, Interactive desktops, 3D program managers, and a buttload of pain :)
[22:03] <majestic> does anybody have anything from a movie that has blown them away
[22:04] <majestic> some twisted idea?
[22:04] <majestic> Am I alone?
[22:05] <majestic> I gues I am
[22:05] <majestic> somebody type something when you're done with the Animatrix :)
[22:05] [Neovanglist] back
[22:06] <majestic> i think it's just you and me did you read ?>
[22:07] [Neovanglist] yea
[22:07] [Neovanglist] alrighty well I think that does it for this meeting